alatefeline: Painting of a cat asleep on a book. (Default)
[personal profile] alatefeline
You can call me alatefeline.

More detailed rambling about name and pronouns and gender feels below.

1. nicknames

If you’re being friendly, I’m likely okay with a nickname. If I’m not for some reason, but you seem reasonable, I’ll let you know to switch. (If you don’t seem reasonable, we probably won’t talk much; however the arrow of causality on that doesn’t reverse because I sometimes don’t talk much to ANYone due to brainweasels.)

Always fine with: alatefeline, my DW name, on or off DW. Respectful nicknames based on that content are okay: wingcat, kit with wings, flying kitty, catperson, feline friend, skydancer, etc. Nicknames based on the syllables: okay with feli, ala, etc; please be aware it’s ‘alate’ as in ‘winged’ not ‘late’ as in ‘tardy’ etc.

Also pretty much always fine with: first initial of my wallet name, C.

On other websites I’m fine with: whatever handle I use there.

If we’ve met in person or exchanged mail & addresses or similar: offline, I’m fine with you using my wallet name; use caution in PMs, emails, etc; don’t post this in public or semi-public, and remember my blog is public. If we’re doing any kind of business in person we can deal with full legal name and honorifics, otherwise first name lastname, firstname, or first syllable of firstname, or all 3 initials are all fine.

Capitalization or lack thereof isn’t a big deal, though.

2. pronouns

Pronouns: pretty much ‘they/them’. As I use they/them pronouns, the set is gender neutral and/or ambiguous in implication. For me they are singular in content, plural-ish in conjugation though it has been pointed out to me that I do use ‘themself’ which is not strictly plural; I appreciate the ability of ‘they’ to render grammatically indeterminate, hence TBD, plural or singular. Also how a sentence like ‘they are alatefeline’ collapses somewhat the not-useful-to-me distinctions between ‘are’ that can be second or third person or sometimes first person, plural or singular, and the ‘is’ that is reserved for singular third person.

I don’t at all mind other common gender-neutral pronouns for myself. I have one friend who is strongly inclined not to be okay with ‘ze’ and I am willing to respect that. ‘Ey’ is fine. ‘Per’ is fine. And so on. Using a name or name-abbreviation as a self pronoun is fine.

And then there’s the other ones.

3.

If you’ve met me in person, you’ve probably heard gendered pronouns used for me.

I’m in a transitional place now with regard to pronouns. I’ve outed myself as genderqueer to the important people in my life who can be expected to get that; but I’m still pondering what they looks and sounds like in terms of constructing a reasonable non-work social life, especially since Aspie as I am peopling is hard and my social life is still always under construction.

I’m kinda wincing at the next bit. If pressed, I would describe myself as cis-ish and as not wanting to appropriate for myself the term transgender, though I am fine if someone describes me under that as an umbrella term. I am almost always read as cis female. Only clued folks ever clock me, face-to-face, as anything gender-non-conforming at all, and only if I’m either laden with pride gear or interacting for an extended period of time without much social masking up. I’m often socially read as quite weird in mentality and cultural lack-of-fit, in ways that include ‘failing’ female gender norms, but I’m not, in other’s minds, generally placed outside of them by that - as far as I can tell, from the various micro-misreadings I get. My body is pretty much female as far as I know, with autism enriching and adjusting all its systems but not removing the sexed components. I don’t have a problem wearing this body, but it makes me feel sick to think I should have to be a female person because of it. My mind refuses to grok gender at all; I can appreciate in others but it makes no sense for my inmost self. The only term I’m really comfortable with is genderqueer.

I’m not COMFORTABLE with doing so, but I’m still ASKING that ***if*** you already use ‘they’ for me you DON’T switch over to gendered pronouns when we’re interacting face-to-face. Unless we interact a fair bit in front of other people I know who may not get it / there is some safety and welfare reason for doing so / I ask you to because of reasons because we’re spending a lot of time together. S and I for example are clear on her pronouns when we talk to and about each other but mine are a work in progress… Since I already HAVE it, KEEPING the ‘they’ going is a way for me to accustom my ears.

If I have to bring up the topic and I feel safe doing so, I would introduce myself saying that my preferred pronouns are ‘they’ but I’m fine with ‘she’ as well. If I got words out. Because I can’t handle the shear between trying to interact at all and needing to conduct constant pronoun-repair.

(I’m not fine with ‘she’. But I am easy with it, accustomed to it. I’m just not OKAY with it.)

At work I use ‘she’ because I can’t even.

(I feel guilty about my fear but am sensibly trying to be both brave and smart, not foolhardy and inclined to jump into crocodile pits out of moralistic masochism. There are much more pleasant ways to hurt oneself than to induce a visibly avoidable social clusterfuck and the attendant panic attack. Especially since personal long-term prospects for laying the groundwork to more gradually adjust my relationship to these issues are, in relation to overall context, pretty good. E.g. I live in Portland, Oregon.)

So I wouldn’t be mad if I got ‘she’d’ but online here I would probably work very hard to make sure I overcame my anxiety and asked to correct it. In face-to-face space it’d likely be a tossup between not-noticing, anxiety-whirl-induced silence, situational reasons not to bring it up, and fixing it.

I’d really rather not ‘he’. It’s at least as bad a fit for me as ‘she’, without the habitual and fly-under-radar components.

I was going to write about 3 sentences to try and update and streamline my sticky post. Ha. Ha. Ha. I love you, folks. If you’ve read this far you get a virtual cookie.

ETA: Also please feel free to comment here, or on another post/comment from me, or message me, whenever, regarding any identity/name/pronoun stuffs you want me to do differently/better for you!!!

Date: 15 Jul 2017 00:34 (UTC)
vladdraculea: Photo of two flower pots with a variety of little flowers (Vlad)
From: [personal profile] vladdraculea
Thanks so muchfor the clarification regarding your DW username. I did not even know that the part before “feline” was all one word and that this word means “winged”. I still don't know how to pronounce it, but I think that's google-able.

— Vlad

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Date: 15 Jul 2017 00:49 (UTC)
alexseanchai: Blue and purple lightning (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai

Date: 15 Jul 2017 00:53 (UTC)
rootsofthestories: A woman wandering into the forest (Default)
From: [personal profile] rootsofthestories
*nod* I default to they and/or generally ask about pronouns with the people I know. It's just the polite thing to do in my mind, even if some others might not agree.

I use genderqueer myself because it's the thing that fits best, even though it doesn't quite settle entirely right. Like clothes you've bought from the store that are in your size but aren't tailored for you in specific.

Date: 15 Jul 2017 00:54 (UTC)
chalcedony_px4: Two scribbled waveforms, one off-black and one off-white, overlapping, on a flat darkish purpleish background. (scribble twins)
From: [personal profile] chalcedony_px4

*nibble cookie* *share cookie back if you also want cookie, because they probably don't need the whole thing*

Date: 15 Jul 2017 01:30 (UTC)
siliconshaman: black cat against the moon (Default)
From: [personal profile] siliconshaman
Um.. I tend to use the pronoun 'dude' as a gender neutral-ish term. Is that ok?

Yes, I know it started out as a male term, I think, but it's kinda mutated as far as I can tell... and hey, out of all the religions, I'm mostly a Dudest, so it's a term of respect kinda like Namaste. The dude in me recognises the dude in you, if you see what I mean. [ I am actually an ordained Dudest priest, but it's not like I practice hard, that would be a contradiction.]

That said, if it's not ok, that's cool too.
Edited Date: 15 Jul 2017 01:40 (UTC)

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From: [personal profile] siliconshaman - Date: 15 Jul 2017 01:51 (UTC) - Expand

Date: 15 Jul 2017 01:54 (UTC)
kengr: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kengr
Well, one *could* read it as "a late feline" and then start riffing off the Monty Python "dead parrot" sketch.

"It is a late feline. an ex-cat..."

But only if it doesn't bother you.

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Date: 15 Jul 2017 02:01 (UTC)
bethany_lauren: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bethany_lauren
this is all good to know! please let me know if I slip. I always want to use the right pronouns for all of my tribe.

Date: 15 Jul 2017 02:03 (UTC)
klgaffney: (Default)
From: [personal profile] klgaffney
I too am glad to have the clarification that you're a wingy cat, not a tardy one (am familiar with 'alate' but it didn't occur in this case)!

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Date: 15 Jul 2017 02:11 (UTC)
antisocialite_forum: A group of small round pumpkins in a very green pumpkin patch (Default)
From: [personal profile] antisocialite_forum
Notes taken, thank you for posting. :o)

>> If I have to bring up the topic and I feel safe doing so, <<
>> At work I use ‘she’ because I can’t even. <<

Sympathy. We have a different situation, though pronouns are messy in social settings for us too. Sometimes if the topic comes up and the person someone's talking to seems safe enough, said someone will say we use they/them pronouns. Usually it only happens if somebody asks about pronouns first (as a few peers have, and one professor). Normally people let it slide if someone's using he/him set (which is normally used on the body) because it's too much trouble to try to correct them. Too much energy, no guarantee of safety, risk of damaging social ties, and we will probably have to teach gender 101 to uninformed people - and anyone wonders why genderweird people don't always give their correct pronouns. :oS

- KM

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Date: 15 Jul 2017 02:22 (UTC)
thnidu: Gay-friendly poly-friendly pagan-friendly monogamous straight Jew (friendly)
From: [personal profile] thnidu
"They/them/their/themself" is the set I prefer to use for gender-free third person singular reference, and I'm entirely comfortable with using or hearing/reading it. Unlike all the novel coinages, we've been using it since Shakespeare's time or earlier. (See The Words that Failed: A chronology of early nonbinary pronouns, by Dennis Baron of the University of Illinois.) And unlike the novel coinages, you don't have to remember which out of a hundred or more sets historically, or half a dozen currently popular sets, each person prefers.

As a linguist, I can go into some more detail if you like. Trying to be considerate, ;-) I won't unless asked.

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From: [personal profile] thnidu - Date: 15 Jul 2017 19:21 (UTC) - Expand

Date: 15 Jul 2017 02:37 (UTC)
kyleri: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kyleri
Nearly all of 3 describes me pretty solidly TOO *offers gender-what high five*

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Date: 15 Jul 2017 02:45 (UTC)
fyreharper: (Default)
From: [personal profile] fyreharper
<3<3<3<3

(Floundering through definitional uncertainty meself a bit here, though currently using assigned-pronoun as stealth-neutral via having known another person who used 'she' as gender neutral. Definitions tricky because... because, and mostly not all one thing, and so much happier when it can just not matter; Why Is Gender Even, etc.)

Thank you for the what-name-means bit! I Have Learned A Thing!

Date: 15 Jul 2017 03:19 (UTC)
cosmochemistry: Photo of a candle being lit by a match (Default)
From: [personal profile] cosmochemistry
Never heard the term "wallet name", I like it.
I think I'm mostly the same re: genderqueer; I'm also okay with 'nonbinary' but it's not as good a fit.


- Sky

Date: 15 Jul 2017 05:44 (UTC)
leecetheartist: A lime green dragon head, with twin horns, and red trim. Very gentle looking, with a couple spirals of smoke from nose. (Default)
From: [personal profile] leecetheartist
I try hard but I still slip up. Stupid pronouns, they all oughta be banned.

Date: 15 Jul 2017 05:45 (UTC)
leecetheartist: A lime green dragon head, with twin horns, and red trim. Very gentle looking, with a couple spirals of smoke from nose. (Default)
From: [personal profile] leecetheartist
Oh yes and check your messages for background free image.

Date: 15 Jul 2017 05:46 (UTC)
we_are_spc: (Default)
From: [personal profile] we_are_spc
We mostly revert to 'they/them if we don't know what the pronounes for anyone are. Especially if the name seems gender nutral to us, or if we suspect the people in question belong to a network/collective. Most often we do this because it's easier to, since sometimes our energy reads as wrong. xd

(Towit: We've been using "They for you most of the time-except for the occasional 'her' in front of RL people we know won't get genderstuff.

-Fallon~r

Date: 15 Jul 2017 08:44 (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath
I don’t have a problem wearing this body, but it makes me feel sick to think I should have to be a female person because of it.

I had pretty much this exact thought yesterday. (And other days, I mean. I just remember yesterday because it was recent. :))

My mind refuses to grok gender at all; I can appreciate in others but it makes no sense for my inmost self.

This is me, too.

Date: 15 Jul 2017 09:32 (UTC)
gingicat: drawing of me based on wedding photo (Default)
From: [personal profile] gingicat
You are not the first "neither" person I have met. It takes practice to use they, but I will likely remember.

There was an all-gender annual thrift sale here about a month ago, and I met a person wearing a dress and having assigned-female attributes who was wearing a badge that said "they/them". I thanked them for wearing the reminder in the wholly-safe place, and did my best to memorize their face.

(How is alatefeline pronounced? Just as it reads?)

Date: 15 Jul 2017 10:59 (UTC)
cmcmck: chiara (chiara)
From: [personal profile] cmcmck
Even given the complications I've faced in life I managed to find a place where I fitted comfortably and 'she' does nicely but I know what you mean about the complexities of descriptors!

The advice given out to so many people (who often then ignore it) is still good advice- if in doubt, ask!

Date: 15 Jul 2017 13:53 (UTC)
chalcedony_px4: Two scribbled waveforms, one off-black and one off-white, overlapping, on a flat darkish purpleish background. (scribble twins)
From: [personal profile] chalcedony_px4

(+) By the way: we didn't recognize the English version of the “winged” term either at first (partly due to the ambiguity from the spaceless use in the DW handle), but we're familiar with the root from French and Latin, so now we can't help but think of your name mentally as félin ailé. ^..^; (Or maybe féline ailée—we don't know enough French to know how the gendered part would come across naturally in a context like this where the referent isn't very Obviously and Traditionally Human in a linguistic sense, especially when there's ambiguity beyond that.)

Date: 15 Jul 2017 15:25 (UTC)
jewelfox: A portrait of a foxgryphon with a beak, black fur, magenta hair, fox ears, and a neckband with a large jewel on it. (Default)
From: [personal profile] jewelfox
I think it's good when those three sentences turn into an essay you hadn't expected to write! It means there were feels that you needed to put into words, and working things out like that feels amazing.

Also, TYVM for clarifying name pronunciation (in the comments) and pronouns! I'd already defaulted to using "they" for you since I couldn't remember your pronouns and it seems like everyone else important in my life is genderqueer, so I guess that I'm partially clued. ^^; Could you perhaps add the pronunciation to this sticky / post?

I think "transgender" might be appropriate if you're transitioning gender presentations. Which it doesn't sound like you feel the need to do so, but then, changing your appearance to feel more comfortable with it is almost always a good thing, even if you're not sure it would rise to the standards apparently demanded by that word. I think part of the reason for those standards is because there's not a lot of respect for, or acknowledgment of, enby issues and struggles, though.

Also:

"My body is pretty much female as far as I know, with autism enriching and adjusting all its systems"

I appreciate this sentence.

And "wingcat" / "wingkitty" suits you very well, I think. I didn't know you had wings, but they fit my mental image of you perfectly. What kind of wings are they?

Keep being awesome pls <3

Date: 16 Jul 2017 17:49 (UTC)
syntaxofthings: drawing of a bunch of people with long blue hair supporting one another ([other] all friends here)
From: [personal profile] syntaxofthings
Oh, dear. I am joining the chorus of people who did not know that "alate" was a word, but now I do! And your username is lovelier for it.

Some sympathetic thoughts:

I don’t have a problem wearing this body, but it makes me feel sick to think I should have to be a female person because of it.

This is my feeling in a nutshell. (Though sometimes I feel it differently: "genderfluid" is another label I use for myself, because some days I feel more manly, especially lately, and argh people only read me as female and that is wrong! Especially grating when I went to try on men's pants and the women working there were doubtful about it; they had cool mustard-coloured pants and they fit me better than most pants I've bought in the last few years.)

I rambled in response to your rambling, oops. Just to say: the wincing and the discomfort have made me feel more valid as genderqueer, and I hope you feel the same sense of relief as I do when using words "genderqueer" and being referred to as "they". (Though I prefer the look of xe/xyr/xem, friends verbally refer to me as "they" and I relax ever so slightly every time I hear that.)

Date: 16 Jul 2017 23:37 (UTC)
lb_lee: A happy little brain with a bandage on it, surrounded by a circle and the words LB Lee. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lb_lee
Technically, wouldn't 'themself' be single, and 'themselves' the plural?

Also it's funny; we wrote a story about a winged cat girl, so your screename seems to fit perfect!

Date: 17 Jul 2017 14:43 (UTC)
redsixwing: Red-winged angel staring at a distant star. (Default)
From: [personal profile] redsixwing
You are excellent wingycat. <3 Good essay.

Date: 20 Jul 2017 01:16 (UTC)
johnpalmer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] johnpalmer
I was going to comment on the ponder/worry whether "late" didn't mean tardy, but I'm going to assume that's what you meant by the "etc.".

If we meet and talk, I'm not sure I'll remember a they pronoun, but I can try. I used to use they as a gender neutral, and, proper usage or not, I found an article that said that it is actually quite old and not-uncommon, and I felt a sort of vindication - so it might be easier than I fear.

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alatefeline: Painting of a cat asleep on a book. (Default)
alatefeline

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